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Greece Wants Germany to Pay for WWII

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    holocaustGreece’s National Council for the Claim of German Debts is demanding 108 billion euro ($143.6 billion,) not including interest, as compensation for the destruction of the infrastructure of Greece during World War II, as well as 54 billion euros ($71.8 billion) for the occupation loan.

    Aristomenis Syggelakis, member of the secretariat of the council, made the announcement in a speech in Thessaloniki during the presentation Greek Holocausts 1940-1945. He also said that the council claims the compensation for damages of the archaeological treasures and certainly for the victims.

    The album includes in its pages the black history of the atrocities against Greeks during the war. “This book aims at keeping alive these regions that marked Greeks’ ordeals, in the memory of the younger generations, as a tribute to those who fought as well as the innocent victims of Nazism and Fascism,” the Head of the Municipality of Pilea-Hortiatis Council, Mihalis Geranis noted. A few months ago, Thessaloniki joined the list with the Martyred Cities and Villages.

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    • Darkkhaki

      Nuts.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eliyahu-Ben-Abraham/1534644655 Eliyahu Ben Abraham

      One thing that Greece could do would be to remind the Germans that their post-WW2 economic recovery –what they like to call the wirtschaftswunder– was not mainly achieved through their own hard work but through the Marshall Plan billions, generously supplied by the USA. And the Germans never had to pay back the $15 billion given them [see first link below]. Those $15 billion were worth a lot more in 1950 dollars than in today’s dollars. Those $15 billion probably now equal much more than $100 billion. The Germans forget how they were helped after a war that they themselves started . Today they don’t want to help their own Euro brethren on the Mediterranean.

       http://ziontruth.blogspot.co.il/2012/05/eurofools-betray-greek-brethren.html

      http://ziontruth.blogspot.co.il/2012/02/cash-short-eu-gives-greece-ultimatum.html

    • Alex

      I wouldn’t go so far as to say the Germans didn’t work hard to fix their country after WW2. They are generally an honest, hard working people that show great ingenuity.

      However, you are right that Germany had massive debt forgiven (far more than Greece is asking for). Without that debt forgiveness, assuming theor country wasn’t dismantled entirely to begin with, they likely would have been stuck in decades of depression as happened after the Versailles treaty.

      After WW2 we all basically forgave the Germans for their mistakes.    What it comes down to with Germany is they have to decide whether they want to stick with the EU or go back to a more nationalist Germany.

      If its the latter and don’t want to help voluntarily by writing off enough debt to make our economy functional … then Greece should sue them for every last dime of damages (including punitive). This should not be a threat. Purely a request to be fairly compensated for the damages Germany committed. Not a penny more or less.

      If its about European unity.. then we each have to take some lumps and Greece shouldn’t pursue the matter.

      I for one strongly support German backed austerity despite many Greek leftist extremists don’t. We have to balance our budgets not depend heavily on German taxpayers to feed us.  That said austarity can only go so far if debt load is crushing an economy in interest payments and accompanying political uncertainty it generates.

      It think there are deep divisions in Germany about how to handle the situation. On one side,  they know deep down our WW2 claim is legitimate. On the other they are tired about hearing about their Nazi past and are (rightfully) angry for having to bail out Greece 

      The truth is Germans are the victims here not Greeks. They are no more to blame for our debt mess than we are to blame for the Nazis attacking our country. We each need to accept moral responsibility for our national mistakes not unfairly point figures at others for them. Germans are not o blame for our debt mess. We are. Its just a matter of whether Germany are willing to help clean them up despite that its our fault. (much like we put aside WW2 compensation up to recently)

      Personally I don’t think any more so-called “bailouts” make sense. What is the point of gettng more loans that we cannot pay back? All it will do is encourage hostility against Greece.

      What we need is continued austerity/// coupled with private investment (I.e. to give Greeks jobs to help themselves rather than govenment handouts)…. and one time principle debt relief adequate enough to manage a primary government surplus (thus we wouldn’t need to keep asking for more loans to make up for annual deficits)

    • Ireneress

      GERMANY MUST PAY GREECE LIKE IT PAID OTHER COUNTRIES. THE E.U.IS A WAY FOR GERMANY TO CONTROL EUROPE. TOOK IN COUNTRIES WITH ECONOMIC PROBLEMS, SET THEM UP TO FAIL,BAILED THEM OUT,OWN THEM NOW. GERMANY CAN NOT KEEP BAILING OUT COUNTRIES. THESE COUNTRIES WILL EXIT THE E.U.AND IT WILL BE NO MORE.IN THE END GERMANY WIL NEED. A BAILOUT.

    • leventi

      What kind of nuts?

    • Darkkhaki

      The “kind of nuts” where Greece needs to quit bellyaching about it!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eliyahu-Ben-Abraham/1534644655 Eliyahu Ben Abraham

       To Alex & Irene, a number of economists have pointed that Germany needs the euro currency more than other eurozone members do, because those countries with weaker economies help keep the value of the common currency down so that Germany can export to the world. If the Germans still had their Dmark, it might be valued so high as to impede exports [consider the Swiss franc]. Maybe that’s why they haven’t pushed Greece out of the eurozone.

      As to the EU as a whole, I and many Israelis don’t see it as especially benevolent. The EU surreptitiously finances all sorts of NGOs that work in Israel to undermine our government and its policies. By the way, the EU donates about a half billion euros a year or more to the Palestinian Authority and supporting NGOs and special projects in PA zones, even increasing the amount since the Eurozone economic crisis began. All this with minimal supervision, in contrast with the close supervision of Greek govt spending and finances.

      http://ziontruth.blogspot.co.il/2013/01/european-union-violates-its-ostensible.html

      http://ziontruth.blogspot.co.il/2013/01/more-on-eus-hypocrisy-its-violation-of.html

    • Standard123

      Not only does Germany still owe Greece, and it is well documented, they took throughout the late 80′s and 90′s every viable industrial company out of Greece, with incentives they offered, leaving Greece with tourism and some of the hardest agricultural land in the world to do what with???

    • worldarts

      Germany owes Greece big time for not only the WW-2 murders and looting of Greece’s gold from it’s banks by Hitler’s army , but for the “Siemen’s Bribery Scandal” where German Officials encouraged bribing Greek Politicans from both PASOK and ND parties, then when the “Scandal” hit it hid the main culprit, Mr. Christoforakos, conveniently hide away in Germany under the protection of the German Government, so the TRUTH would not be revealed as too the extent of their complicity in the case…

      Then there was the German “Submarine & Armaments Scandal” that rocked Greece & finally got Greek Ex-Defense minister Aki Tzahadsopolous in the current bribery case he is in trouble with for taking Million os Euros in German brobes… How honest do that make Germany & what right do they have to demand austerity on Greek now when they have been complict and part of the rape of this country???!!!     

    • worldarts

      You call yourself a Greek? Saying above “The truth is Germans are the victims here not Greeks. They are no more to blame for our debt mess than we are to blame for the Nazis attacking our country.” — After looting most of Greece’s gold from it’s banks by Hitler’s army , and then the “Siemen’s Bribery Scandal” where German Officials encouraged bribing Greek Politicans from both PASOK and ND parties, then when the “Scandal” hit the main culprit, Mr. Christoforakos, conveniently hidden away in Germany under the protection of the German Government. Have you forgotten Akis Tzahazopoluos and the German Submarine & Armamnets Bribery Scandal” where the German are involved too??

      Oh, Alex, you are just a hopeless basketcase… Go live with your German friends.

    • danasta

      Germany may have already settled the case of reparations, I don’t know, but the forced loan is absolutely still owed to Greece. You owe money on a loan unless you default, right? So why doesn’t Germany owe money for this loan? There are two other elements of this owed money as well. In 1953, Greece wiped away the pre-war loans that Germany owed Greece (a debt jubilee), so you’d think Germany might return the favor. After all, Germany was rewarded for its behavior. Is Greek behavior any worse than German behavior in that period? No. Lastly, there’s the case of the stolen gold. So, there are 4 elements here:

      1. Reparations for the destruction of Greek infrastructure, hundreds of thousands killed. (This is the weakest case, most likely).

      2. The forced loan during the war (this should be repaid).

      3. The stolen gold from the Greek treasury (this one is a bit murky still)

      4. The 1953 forgiveness of billions of German debt by Greece (morally, Germany should reciprocate, as Greece forgave this to Germany in a time of need, even though Greece itself was bad off because of the subsequent civil war sparked by Germany’s invasion).

    • Alex

       When it comes to our debt… Germans ARE the victims. Their taxpayers are the one bailing our mistakes comrade. They are in no way responsible for our own government spending us into the ground comrade.

      Your idea of “patriotism” is amoral parastic behavior. My idea of patriotism is trying to create an honest self-sufficient Greece.

    • Alex

       I complete understand and sympathize about what you say about the manipulative nature of many NGOs Eliyahu (which simply frame their politics as “human rights”)

      What many of these NGOs are disrespectfully trying to do is wipe out indigenous populations like happened in the Americas (what they frame as multiculturalism). They have no sense of immigration control to preserve national character. Instead they are like the communists trying to effectively destroy our ethnic identities and rant “fascism” and “racism” to indigenous people that try to preserve their homeland.

      As for the “Palestinians”… I actually used to support them but the whole name dispute with FYROM has made me re-evaluate my position. I learned that the so-called “Palestinians’ are an ethnic group invented in the 20th century much like the “ethnic Macedonians”. Prior to the modern era “Palestinians” simply considered themselves Muslims like any other Muslims in the region. They could just as easily have called themselves Jordanians or Egyptians but preferred to play games with Jews. (Israel being the only Jewish state in the world, and a tiny one at that compared to massive parts of the world that are Muslim). Much like the Slavs in FYROM abuse the name to insinuate that Greece is occupied territory, the Palestinians abuse the name to insinuate that Israel is occupied territory.

      Some Greeks and Jews hate one another by I for one want to build a strong relationship with Israel. I think we have far far more incommon and given we are non-Muslims surrounded by a sea of Muslims (many of which wish to destroy our tiny countries) we would make good long term allies.

    • Alithia

      There is no such thing as Greeks at fault. God himself said that Greeks are innocent and deserve to retire at 52 and not pay taxes. 

      Who is going to argue with God? 

    • Cypriot

      I’d argue that the Greek people are the victims of the Greek debt. The Germans don’t have it not even nearly as bad. Who’s to say that had the Nazis not attacked Greece, Greece wouldn’t have gone in this direction and gotten into debt?

    • Cypriot

      What about this article that was posted: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2012/12/14/illicit-trade-of-greek-antiquities-by-nazis/

      Demand the treasures back or the money!

    • http://www.facebook.com/ange.kenos Ange T Kenos

      Germany emptied the Hellenic banks in what they called a “loan”. My own grandmother’s family were wiped to poverty. They destroyed whole villages and slaughtered close to 14% of the population as far as we know. Maybe more due to poor records. They destroyed schools, hospitals, bridges, factories, roads… and left the nation struggling for decades after the war. They legally have to repay and they must.

    • Alex

      Japan and Germany were flattened and managed to rebuild their economies. Other small countries have also managed to thrive despise adversity (e.g. Israel)

      We could have done the same but instead we decided to spend ourselves into the ground. Not every Greek is responsible for this (not even every Greek politician)  but on a national level we are are responsible for out debt. Germans didn’t ask us to spend ourselves into the ground so they can fork over their hard earned taxpayer dollars to clean up our messes.

    • Alex

       Nazis bombed Greece but Germans are not to blame for our lack of industry. We are entirely to blame for that. Too many Greeks focus on tourist industry rather than time proven staples like Mathematics, physics, engineering, et al. We need more real scientists and less pmo social scintiests and bartenders.

      The way to do this is for government and private industry to focus resources on hard sciences and technology. Technology creates a productivity edge that even cheap manual labour can’t ultimately win against. 

      For instance, the future of manufacturing is robotics and the software the runs it.  Even today Greeks can learn about half that equations by learning programming for free on the Internet. Setup of a software development company that bypasses our dreadful economy. Unfortunately many Greeks prefer to rant for handouts rather than take command of their own lives. They sit on their hands waiting for a handful of politicians and wealthy people to fix their lives rather than realize they themselves are the number one thing holding themselves back.

    • Timon of Athens

       No, Alex is not “just a hopeless basketcase”. That is unfair to basketcases.

      Alex is a twisted, self-obsessed, anally-retentive idiot in the final stages of dementia who cannot formulate any argument except one that rants against the left and Syriza.

      In short, he is an witless moron and a Skopian imposter.

    • Cypriot

      Israel has receieved and continues to receive billions in aid from the US, so Israel is definitely not a good example. Germany and Japan received huge amounts from the US after WW2 but Japan’s economy is a shambles today. Terrible examples.

      Like I said, the politicians have messed it up. It is they who did the spending. If the people didn’t pay tax that wouldn’t result in overspending. And, like I said, had we not been looted and invaded by the Germans in WW2 we may have gone a very different and prosperous path. Who knows… What I do know is that Germany owes us, and giving us loans from which they will make profit whilst demanding that the Greek people suffer to keep the EU in tact is not a valid excuse.

      I know you support the cuts, but I bet you aren’t even slightly affected by them. You probably live in the US or something.

    • Dolebarber

       Not sure if just trolling or serious ^^^

    • Captain CDO

      The only difference between Greece and Somalia is that the Greece was allowed to borrow tons of $$$ while Somalia wasn’t. Hey, I could afford a huge mansion if allowed to borrow the money… who cares if I will never be able to repay the loan with my little salary, right ?

    • http://www.facebook.com/davidebaillie David Baillie

      And who should give a damn about Israel? There would be no Israel without them sucking billions out of Germany and the US, billions and billions, while the Learned Elders run scams around the world with the banking system, organized crime and their crapola horsesh*t story about the Holocaust, which is falling apart more and more all the time!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/davidebaillie David Baillie

      Tell the English to return the Greek gold they stole and blame your own guerrillas who worked for the Communists and the English which caused all of the endless violence in Greece. You dummies helped hand the world over to Communism, and you whine about the victory you got. Go look in the mirror, you were on the wrong side.