The Name Game: Greece Gave Macedonia Away



Say the magic word and win $100 … that’s right, it’s Macedonia! And it’s Greek.

Macedonia is Greek. Get that? Macedonia is Greek, no matter what Greece’s envious neighbor to the north, a place called FYROM, wishes were the case.

After gaining its independence from Yugoslavia  21 years ago, you’d think the people who lived there might want to come up with an original name for their new country instead of claiming two others. But still the dispute over what Greece and FYROM can agree to call that other country drags on ad infinitum and has grown past tiresome.

The FYROMians keep saying Macedonia is theirs, and they mean more than the name as they’d like to seize Thessaloniki and have a port too. I went to an irredentist a couple of times but then stopped because he kept taking out the same tooth and claiming it was his. Arguing with him was tiresome but not as tedious as the endless talks between Greece and FYROM over the name.

As tedious news stories go, none – not even the droning-on-again-off-again Middle East peace talks, nor the doomed Cyprus re-unification negotiations – are bigger MEGO’s (My Eyes Glaze Over) than the preposterous sham engaged in between Greece and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, which is called only “Macedonia” by as many as 133 countries.

Americans might know how Greeks feel if Canada suddenly decided to call itself the United States and put out a map showing it owned all the way down to New York. Canada is populated by Americans-in-training so the envy is obvious, although O Canada is a better national anthem and has sparked many classic hockey brawls.

What to officially call the appendage bordering on Greece’s province of Macedonia (confused yet?) has been going on for two decades. Nearly twenty years of fighting over one word, a diplomat’s dream as that means they get to keep staying in 5-Star hotels and calling room service for caviar and hookers. One word.

Sadly, the name Macedonia – which is Greek no matter how much the FYROMians complain or how many airports they name Alexander the Great – was ceded away by Greece the moment it allowed that little neighborhood to identify itself as the Former Yugoslav Republic of ………. Macedonia. It is, of course, a Greek word which should provide a clue as to which country it’s in.

Newspapers like to find the fewest words for headlines and FYROM ain’t one of them, but Macedonia is, and all Greece had to do 19 years ago was simply refuse to allow the word Macedonia in any of the silly acronymns that could have been used and we’d be talking about which century the Middle East and Cyprus talks would end, even if it’s not this one.

Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras, who has never met a tax hike or pay cut for workers he didn’t like, at least stood tall when he was Foreign Minister in the Administration of then-New Democracy leader and Premier Constantine “Marshmallow” Mitsotakis in 1993 when the so-called Macedonia Question was being debated internationally.

While Mitsotakis caved in faster than the Chicago Cubs in a pennant race, Samaras opposed allowing the name FYROM, and his departure from the party brought down the government, but too late to keep the name Macedonia in Greece.

So like it or not, Greece will eventually have to live with knowing that by whatever name it agrees to accept for FYROM – but which most of the rest of the world calls Macedonia – the only name it will be known by is … Macedonia.  That’s because Greece agreed to accept the name Macedonia in the acronym of FYROM and you can’t unring a bell.

The name game talks will keep going on because there is no answer that would not involve the word Macedonia and that’s what that other country will be called no matter how many angry comments appear in blogs or news sites in the battle for revisionist history.

FYROM, FRYROM, FO-FYROM

So while Macedonia is really Greek, only Greece really believes that anymore, and that doesn’t count in the court of public opinion. Greece is dead right, but that doesn’t matter so you can expect the FYROMians to keep peppering the Internet with inane arguments that really is disguised jealousy that makes them wish they had a real country instead of a haven for Al Capone wanna-be gangsters and political thugs.

Greece was hoping that after it had been either ignored or sold down the river by the administration of former US president George W. Bush that it would do better under Barack Obama – who uses the name Macedonia. During the Obama Administration there hasn’t been an inch of progress made because that’s the way the U.S. likes it and America keeps playing Greece for the fool.

The only cards that Greece holds is its right to block FYROM from getting into NATO or the European Union until the name dispute is settled, so we don’t have to worry about that for another 100 years or so until everyone has forgotten what the name feud was over, unless FYROM changes its name to NATO just to confuse the allies.

And while Greece’s economy is teetering, thanks to generations of greed, corruption and incompetence, Macedonia is using the lull to go on CNN and the world media pitching itself as a cheap place to invest and bring in business, and you can be sure if it does no international company is going to say it has an office in FYROM.

History doesn’t count here, only politics does, and that’s why Greece will eventually accept some version of a name which has the name Macedonia in it, and that’s the only one that will be used no matter if the final version is Upper Macedonia, Inner Macedonia, Outer Macedonia, Inside-Out Macedonia, Upside-Down Macedonia, Where’s-Waldo-Macedonia, Northern Macedonia, North of Greece Macedonia, Pseudo-Macedonia, Quasi-Macedonia, Almost Macedonia, We-Wish-We-Were-Macedonia, Too-Bad-Macedonia-is-Greek or Alexander-the-Great Slept Here in Macedonia. The key word here, in case you missed it, is …… Macedonia.

SLICKER THAN WD-40

Greece has itself to blame because it had its chance to insist that word not be in whatever name that little part of the former Yugoslavia called itself, as insignificant a little territory it is. If it were any more useless it could be part of Bulgaria. FYROM can’t even hold elections without people getting killed in gunfights or have sessions of Parliament without fistfights in the halls. FYROM is an afterthought, not a country, and doesn’t belong in the EU. If FYROM says it’s Slavic, why did it choose the name of Alexander the Great, a Greek hero, for its airport?

FYROM isn’t just land-locked, it’s brain locked, and if it wants to show its true colors, it can remove the red from its red-and-yellow flag. FYROM maps claim Greek territory as its own, including the ancient Greek city of Thessaloniki, because the Slavs want a port, a curious thought since they don’t have a real navy or a shipping industry, but that’s what happens when jealousy is a main plank of your foreign policy.

It must be tough living in a low-rent, second-rate neighborhood next to the most important country the ancient world produced, because Greece created democracy and FYROM created …. well, nothing. FYROM is the creation of the myth of political compromise, a fake amalgam of a country that didn’t exist until Greece allowed the use of a name most Greeks didn’t want used.

Maybe that’s appropriate though, since what’s important to the US and the EU is getting another country under its influence, so what matters here isn’t Greece, but grease. The real fraud is on its way and will forever be imbedded when newspaper headlines reveal the final silly compromise name that will only be called Macedonia, and it won’t be in Greece any more.

But maybe there’s a better answer, provided in Duck Soup, the inimitable Marx Brothers classic. Reach a compromise to let FYROM call itself Freedonia and even the Greeks will be singing, “Hail Freedonia!”


246 COMMENTS

  1. Pure nonsense. Being born in America doesn’t make one “ethnic Apache”. Being born in China does not make one “ethic Chinese”. You muddling geography and citizenship with ethnicity and culture. (not to mention you apparently don’t even know FYROM isn’t located in original macedonia in the first place..located wholly in Greece)

  2.  Greeks have every right to be concerned when FYROM’s government is bizarrely teaching them they are  descendents of ancient Maceonians and quietly encouraging them to see Macedonia Greece as “Greek occupied Macedonia”.

  3.  In ancient time… Sparta and Athens also fought one another… as did many Greeks states.

    In ancient times… ancient Macedonians, founders of Hellenistic period, spreaders of Greek language and culture, competitor at Greek-only sporting events SELF-IDENTIFIED as Hellenes.

    Are you that ashamed of your Bulgarian heritage that you need to pretend to be “macedonian”? Shouldn’t be cherishing your heritage rather than oppressing it?

  4. Remember the people in Fyrom and its diaspora are very uneducated and have no knowledge of their on roots or anyone else for that matter.

    All their limited knowledge are based on repeated propaganda. Hence you can see all of them repeats the same things,

  5. One of Fyroms main hero stated “As a Bulgarian”. Was he drunk? He forgot he was ancient Macedonians???  Maybe you should update your knowledge which seems to be the same as you can see in ultra nationalist sites from Fyrom.

    “As a Bulgarian, I would willingly return to Bulgaria, if there is a need of a scientific research of the fate of the Bulgarian lands, especially in Macedonia.”
    Krste Misirkov, “Diary 5 July to 30 August 1913”, Sofia-Skopje, 2008, Published by State Agency “Archives” of the Republic of Bulgaria & State Archive of the Republic of Macedonia, p. 168

  6. David Cameron is a pretentious unprincipled idiot that contradicts another Conservative PM of GB…. Winston Churchill.

    His administration (and subsequent ones)  not only claimed there was not such thing as an “ethnic Macedonian” but actually supplied weapons to expel IMRO terrorists promoting this gibberish during Greek civil war.

    It is no wonder
    that, in matters of politics in the Balkans, Greece feels misunderstood. It
    cannot understand why, after it stood alone with the United Kingdom against the
    forces of fascism between 28 October 1940–Ohi day, as it is still called–and 27
    April 1941, when Athens finally fell, its former allies now appear to be taking
    the part of forces against which it stood, especially when, after the second
    world war, it endured those further four years of civil war to hold the line
    against the communist advance to the Aegean. That was done for the United
    States and for the United Kingdom especially–the world powers of the time–and
    those Governments objected, in 1944, to Tito’s change of the name of Vardar
    Banovina.”

    (Edward O’Hara, House of Commons Hansard Debates
    for 9 May 1995, Column 602)

  7.  Sure… you are “totally independent”… just like me.

    I am from the moon but decided to come to Greek Reporter all of sudden and start posting on Macedonia name issue as objective moon person   We moon people all agree that the former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians… who have suddenly become ‘ancient Macedonians”…… who live in ancient Paeonioa not Macedonia… who changed the place names of their city to Slavic sounding ones from Turkish…that deny the identity of Greeks in everything but name…. who encourage irredentism against the macedonians who live in actually Macedonia,,,, should be called “ethnic macedonians”.

    But I love Greece….

    Get a life troll.

    Those who live in
    Skopje and say that that is Macedon and Alexander’s homeland are as IGNORANT
    and OUTRAGEOUS as if someone was to say that Oxford University was really in
    Belarus and Oxford was Minsk”

     

    Prof. Robin Lane Fox
    of Oxford University

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mIRe5tnqRKM#t=5s

  8. As a “totally independent’ citizens of the moon… who decided to suddenly show on Greek reporter and start ranting about name dispute on FYROM’s behalf… I totally agree with you.

  9.  I am neither Greek nor FYROM nationalist…. I am a citizen from the moon who decided to suddenly show up on Greek Reporter to rant on FYROM’s behalf…. ignore all the evidence pointing to irredentism and FYROM’s sudden identity change into “ancient Macedoians”….. but I love Greece.

  10. Notice the technique of FYROM ultra natioanlists trolling this threat Andy. They slander anyone that questions their behavior as “racist”,  “nazis’, “fascists”,  “human rights opprespr”, “bigot”, etc.. while simultaneously saying absolutely nothing about rampant irredentism and the “ancient Macedonians’ gibberish being promoted both in FYROM and its diaspora.

    If you check the twittter links at bottom you’ll notice you  are already slandering you in this matter for this article. (e.g someone tweated setimes.com calling you a “bigot”)

    IMO Greeks need to push back against these actual BIGOTS( (both any FYROM ultra nationalists and amongst its apologists) who manipulate words to hide their ultra nationalism.

    Greek reporter should start a regular series of articles reporting incidence of irredentism, historical propaganda being promoted by FYROM,  documenting racist rhetoric and hate speech.. as well as the dead silence by any of FYROM”s apologists who dishonestly pretend not to notice their behavior (IMO to cover up their shame for supporting them)

  11. I agree with most of what you say  but  the “macedonia divided” bit.

    This is an urban myths being perpetuated (even in mainstream) due to myths from prior eras that have remained in public consciousness (in no small part because of the “United macedonia” rhetoric FYROM ultra natioanlists promote)Modern history books have advanced.

    The modern geography of regions named “Macedonia” do not correlate to ancient ones. Original ancient Macedonia is literally all in Greece (or very close to it). FYROM is located in region named Paenoina in antiquity (Dardinia to the north) 

    In short, even the former ethnic Bulgarians of FYROM using the arguing of geography doesn’t wash. They are literally basing their identity on land that exists in another country. (sort like norther france calling themselves “ethnic english”)

  12. Pay close attention to all the fake  accounts by FYROM natiaonlists pretending to be other ethnic groups (to try and trick others that they are objective)  If they do it here, you can bet they’ve been doing it other websites on the internet (likely for years). These people are unofficially at war with us.

  13. FYROM alone is not a threat but if the past is any judge they try to make alliences with foes much bigger than Greece (Turkish government today playing that role by lobbying for FYROM in international venues as proxy against Greece)

    A reminder or what atrocities IMRO are capable of (today similarly named VMRO taking up their cause),

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Mihailov#1934_-_1944
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohrana

    http://www.life.com/image/50774476

    http://www.life.com/image/50774469

    http://www.life.com/image/50774470

    Skopje authorities instigating ‘climate of fear’: Leaked US cables

    “Macedonia’s
    Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski and his inner circle are making systematic use
    of the state’s judicial and repressive apparatus to quell dissent, reveal US
    cables obtained by WikiLeaks”

    http://www.euractiv.com/enlargement/skopje-authorities-instigating-climate-fear-leaked-us-cables-new-505305

    Even on this very threat in comment sections there are calls by FYROM natioanlists to annex parts of Greeks. This is common to massive number of FYROM websites (visit any You Tube channel by FYROM nationalist. Majority reference “united Macedonia”)

    The FYROM government claim otherwise officially (what else are they going to say) but this irredentism is being quietly supported of state sponsored level. Tito also claimed he wasn’t interested in irredentism in Greece… just the human rights of “Macedonians in Macedonia”…just before funding civil war in Greece. The IMRO technique of abusing human rights lingo to push ultra nationalist causes isn’t new.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpFQUH_9VPA

  14. Oh that explains everything Anonymous. You claim you are Macedonians….but you are Greek, Hmmmm that makes real sense. I have enjoyed sitting back watching you get stirred up by the truth of many native Macedonians. You have put on a great show by pulling out quotes from your Greek bed time story book. Thanks for the laughs! Just one thing, the truth will emerge and I will be there like many others to claim our land back that you occupy, peacefully and without any gunfire. Macedonia for the Macedonians!

  15. Dear Bulgarian girl, I would like to inform you that we aren’t Turks but Ellines. Now, if you would travel to Anatolia (the stolen land currently occupied by Turks), you will see that some Turks look a little like us and it’s absolutly normal because theses persons have Hellenic genes.
    I remember you that one of the favorite tactic used by the Ottomans was to steal children from the Christian populations of the Balkans and educate them as muslims and Turks to make them soldiers for the Ottoman Empire.
    And so my point is, we don’t have Turkish genes but some Turks have Hellenic genes. Thank you for your understanding.

  16. Your logical is basically oeople in New York Claim to be New Yorkers but then they are Americans That makes real sense?

    Not only do you delusionally hide from the facts but you aren’t very familiar with basic logic.

    Indeed macedonian for the Macedonians…. and Paeonia for the former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians of FYROM.

  17. Reality check:

    “…The phrase itself and the concept behind it are recognized as the brainchild of a 19-th century German historian, Johan Gustav Droysen.In his history of the Successors he promoted, as the key factor of the period, the ADOPTION of the Greek language and Greek culture by NON-Greeks in territories previously ruled by the Achaemenids. To express this concept, he used the term ‘hellenismus’, based on the Greek term (hellenismos), in its biblical sense of IMITATING or ACQUIRING ‘Greek’ language,” (“The Hellenistic Age: A short history”, Peter Green, p. 17,18)http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl/9780812967401.html

  18. And here they are:

    Ex-PRIME MINISTER: Kostas Karamanlis, former surname: Kalayciouglu (Turk from Asia Minor):Earlier Karamanlis”Karamanlis’s forefathers lived in Karaman, Turkey. The family’s former (Turkish) surname was Kalaycioglu. When the family left Turkey, they changed their surname into ‘Karamanlis’.”(Data recently removed from Wikipedia)But helpfully there’s “View history” button, et voila – Karamanlis turned back TURK again:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kostas_Karamanlis&diff=159321238&oldid=159313924#Earlier_Karamanlis ACTUAL PRESIDENT: Karolos Papoulias (Albanian), born June 4, 1929 in Voština (renamed Pogoniani), Epir, is the current Albanian president of Greece. His ancestors changed the name and religion some 100 years ago.He is the son of Major General Gregorios Papoulias and grandson of SULEIMAN PAPULIA who is known being related to Tahir Papulia, an Albanian dervenaga from 1821. His grandfather from his mother’s side was ZULFIKIAR, a wealthy Albanian landowner from Yanina. Papulias also maintains his friendship with fellow Cham-Albanian classmate Fuat Botsi (now a retired actor) residing in Fieri, Albania.(“History of the Greek Revolution” by Alexandros Sutsos)http://books.google.mk/books?id=xjhCAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=Suleiman+Papulia&source=bl&ots=Yq7n-mofbH&sig=vV__1Qupq_aPRvmXnYV36NLbQxg&hl=mk&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Suleiman%20Papulia&f=falsehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannina_VilayetEx-FINANCE MINISTER Evangelos Venizelos (Turkish Gypsy): The journalist Mark Dragoumis questioned the origin of Venizelos’ name, suggesting that E. Venizelos, or one of his ancestors, has changed his name.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelos_VenizelosAnd here it is – Venizelos ‘s real family name is TURKIOZOGLOU:”According to information since given to this columnist by an Asian Minor scholar specialising in the names of refugee families, the name change dates from shortly after 1922 when an ancestor of the PASOK politician – probably his grandfather – came to Greece from Asia Minor bearing the name of Turkiozoglou (ie “son of a song-writer” as Turkin means song in Turkish) ” http://www.athensnews.gr/old_issue/13255/16785Most probably a gypsy from Turkey, as the gypsies are widely known as musicians and blacksmiths. SOLUNS MAYOR: Yannis Boutaris (Vlach)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiannis_BoutarisACTUAL PRIME MINISTER: A.Samaras (Vlach): Families of Vlachs from Samarina: Avelas, Agorogiannis, Vrazitikos, Gerasis, Gabetas, Gravanis, Ligouras, Lioupas, SAMARAS, Sarmaniotis, Stimoniaris, Tsaknakis.http://hellas.teipir.gr/Thesis/Larisa/makrixori/english/en_family.htm

  19. “Grease” – fake “nation”, fake “history”, fake language, fake…

  20. Andy Psycho-Candy, learn some from your open-minded coleague:

    ‘Greece’ has little in common with Pericles or Plato. If anything, it is a FAILED GERMAN PROJECT.

    Athens, then a small hamlet, was inaugurated as the capital. The architects from Munich designed and built a royal palace, an academy, a library and beautiful neoclassical edifices.

    ‘Greece’ was thus INVENTED as a backdrop to contemporary European art and imagination, a historical precursor of many Disneylands to come.’
    THE INVENTION of fantastical modern ‘Greece” demanded that its people also remained IMAGINARY.

    (‘Modern Greece built on myth’ by GEORGE ZAKARDAKIS.The Washington Post, Nov.12, 2011)
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/eo20111112a1.html

  21. There is a reason why 400 world famouse historians are jointly protesting against fyroms propaganda. They write

    “The answers are clear:  Alexander the Great was Greek, not Slavic, and Slavs and their language were nowhere near Alexander or his homeland until 1000 years later.  This brings us back to the geographic area known in antiquity as Paionia.  Why would the people who live there now call themselves Macedonians and their land Macedonia? ”

    ” the government in Skopje to understand that it cannot build a national identity at the expense of historic truth.  Our common international society cannot survive when history is ignored, much less when history is fabricated.”

    w w w   . macedonia-evidence  . org

    The question is should we listen to the former Bulgarians (that pretends to be “Macedonians”) from Fyrom and their propaganda , or the facts and science from the bust universities in the world.

    I belive the answer is quite clear. The former Bulgarians must solve their identity problems. They cant base their identity on lies , myths and fiction. It is very clear. Everyone knows they are ethnik Bulgarians with a new name.

  22. That is a really good question 400 world famous historians are asking

    ” Why would the people who live there now call themselves Macedonians and their land Macedonia? ”

    Why should the former Bulgarians from Fyrom be called “Macedonians”. If we remove their lies , myths and falsification of history(which the historians are protesting against) there is just their real Bulgarian roots left.

    Nothing in their culture  ,territory ,  names , folklore , historical roots have anything to do with anything “Macedonia”.

    Does not the real Macedonians(Greeks from the real historical Macedonian region in Greece) have any human rights to keep their identity and history.

    This is the greatest scam of the millennium.

  23. Instead if copying and pasting from your ultra nationalistic sites maybe you could explain

    How the Bulgarian Milidanov brothers and their work Bulgarian folk songs became “Macedonians’ and their work “Macedonian folk songs”

    This is how you former Bulgarians where falsified to fake “Macedonians”.

  24. Give Greece another year and there won’t be an argument – because there won’t be a Greece.  This country of incompetent leeches will destroy themselves.

  25. OK, then reporter…tell me what ‘Macedonia’ means in the ancient or modern Greek language?

    In the Macedonian language, it means ‘Mothers domain/home’

    You can write ‘Macedonia is Greek’ all you like, but everyone knows the Greek people are thieves and liars… Just look at how they lied about their fiscal position!

  26. You are “Greek ” Settlers dumped in the occupied territories of Macedonia 1912 onwards.
    Prosfigi that what you all are. Stealers of Macedonian History !!! Fact!!! Your settlers and have nothing to do with the Macedonians. Ask Turkey they will confirm that you settlers

  27. Do you mean the language that used to be a Bulgarian dialect before communist renamed it in 1944 to “Macedonian’ for political reasons.

    Macedonian is similar to Bulgarian and is sometimes been regarded as a variety of that language
       “Encyclopedia of Bilingualism and Bilingual Education”, Colin Baker, Sylvia Prys Jones, p. 413

    From a strictly linguistic point of view Macedonian can be called a Bulgarian dialect, as structurally it is most similar to Bulgarian

    “Encyclopedia of Language and Linguistics”, Keith Brown, 1994

    You know right that your Bulgarian dialect appeared in the Balkans thousands of years after the creation of the real Macedonia(which is of course totally unrelated to your renamed dialect some 4000 years later)

  28. So Greeks are settlers in Greece.

    Make sense Zlatko

    But maybe you can explain why all your ancestors are Bulgarians?

    “I call these songs Bulgarian and not Slavic, because if someone today should ask the Macedonian Slav “what are you?” he would be immediately be told: “I am Bulgarian” and would call his language “Bulgarian”.

    Stefan Verkovich, Bosnian folklorist, “Folk Songs of the Macedonian Bulgarian”, Vol. 1, 1860

  29. I am a proud Greek, born in Australia and the Fyromians should admit they are Bulgarians born in Tito’s Makedonkey!

  30. Wow, what a bunch of pathetic numbskulls.

    You hate your Albanian neighbours, you hate your Bulgarian neighbours, you hate your Turkish neighbours and you hate your Macedonian neighbours.

    You persecute your indigenous minorities – the ones who pre-exist you in the region and try to force them to present as “Greeks”.

    You hate immigrants, you hate homosexuals, you hate pretty much everything under the sun.

    You even hate Angela Merkel who is stupidly propping up your degenerate, quasi-fascist country.

    You are so lucky to belong to a group as stupid as the European Union. However long that lasts. If Greece was in North America you’d be bigger rednecks than those in Alabama – and treated appropriately.

    Has it never occured to you that you xenophobic Greeks might be the problem – and not the rest of the world?

    Respect Macedonians, respect Albanians respect Turks and respect Bulgarians. Don’t be led around the nose by neo-Nazi monkeys and religious fascists.

    Or don’t ask anyone to respect you in return. That’s how the world works, you ignorant cry babies.

  31. Surely being in Macedonia since the sixth century entitles one to call themselves Macedonian.

    How long have today’s modern Greeks been living in the modern Greek state?

    Less than a hundred years, and yet you fools believe that you are descended from the ancient Greeks.

    Good luck with that.

  32. you greeks have no idea.you live in a bubble of a world.that is why your country is falling to pieces.yes macedonia does exist where people speak macedonian,eat macedonian food,listen to macedonian music and are proud to be macedonian.YES WE ARE REAL.your government knows that recognising us, your pathetic country called greece will fall apart.i find it very funny the greeks that live in occupied macedonia claim to be descendence of alexander the great lol.in fact they are christian turkish refugees 1.3 million of them.your greek civil war the communists where 40% macedonians.in time we will get our country back.there are still many around in greece,with greek names and surnames but macedonian hearts.learn your history first then comment about us

  33. Is it not time for you to leave the lies , myths and propaganda behind you?  The world knows who are are/where. The real Macedonians(Greeks that lives in the historical region of Macedonia which is to 98% inside modern Greece) have human rights to keep their ancient identity. You are just very confused former Bulgarians. Those facts are written in every university in the world.

    Quote – T.J. Winnifrith,
    “Apparently these “radical Slavic factions” decided to live with their myths and lies for the constant amusement of the rest of the world…”

    “Macedonia was also an attempt at a multicultural society. Here the fragments are just about holding together, although the cement that binds them is an unreliable mixture of propaganda and myth. The Macedonian language has been created, some rather misty history involving Tsar Samuel, probably a Bulgarian, and Alexander the Great, almost certainly a Greek, has been invented, and the name Macedonia has been adopted. Do we destroy these myths or live with them? Apparently these “radical Slavic factions” decided to live with their myths and lies for the constant amusement of the rest of the world…”

    T.J. Winnifrith, “Shattered Eagles, Balkan Fragments”, Duckworth,

    “Why are we ashamed and flee from the truth that whole positive Macedonian revolutionary tradition comes exactly from exarchist part of Macedonian people? We shall not say a new truth if we mention the fact that everyone, Gotse Delchev, Dame Gruev, Gjorche Petrov, Pere Toshev – must I list and count all of them – were teachers of the Bulgarian Exarchate” 

    former Prime Minister and Vice President of FYROM, Ljubčo Georgievski, 2007, in his book “С лице към истината” (“Facing the truth”).

  34. It is very well documented how the former Bulgarians from Fyrom got their new identity. Today these confused ex Bulgarians even pretends to be related to ancient Greeks. It is a tragedy what is going on in Fyrom today, with all the propaganda small children are taught. Again, everyone knows who you where. It is very well documented. Your only path is to leave the lies , myths and propaganda behind you. And no,  there is no world conspiracy against you former Bulgarians(that pretends to be Macedonians) that has altered the documentation in every university in the world.

    Here are some:

    “The Macedonian nationalists quite simply stole all of Bulgarian historical argument concerning Macedonia, substituting Macedonian for Bulgarian ethnic tags in the story. Thus Kuber formed a Macedonian tribal alliance in the late seventh century; Kliment and Naum were Macedonians and not Bulgarians; the medieval archbishop-patriarchate of Ohrid, which Kliment led, was a Macedonian, not a Bulgarian independent church, as shown by the persistence of Glagolitic letters in the region in the face of the Cyrillic that were spawned in Bulgaria; and the renowned Samuil led a great Macedonian, rather than a western Bulgarian, state against Byzantium (giving Slav Macedonia its apex in the historical sun).The obviously plagiarized historical argument of the Macedonian nationalists for a separate Macedonian ethnicity could be supported only by linguistic reality, and that worked against them until the 1940s. Until a modern Macedonian literary language was mandated by the socialist-led partisan movement from Macedonia in 1944, most outside observers and linguists agreed with the Bulgarians in considering the vernacular spoken by the Macedonian Slavs as a western dialect of Bulgarian.”

    Dennis P. Hupchick, “Conflict and Chaos in Eastern Europe”, Palgrave Macmillan, 1995.

  35. Well lets look at your “Macedonian” music.

    Fyroms folklore has it roots from the famous Milidanov brothers. These brothers where self determined Bulgarians and their famous work is called by them self “Bulgarian folk songs”

    When the ex Bulgarians got their new identity and “language” in communist Yugoslavia,  the Milidanov brothers where renamed to “Macedonians” and their work to “Macedonian folksongs” just in Fyrom (in the rest of the world they are of of course still Bulgarians).

    Here is the crux ,everything you refer to “Macedonian” is just created by propaganda and falsification of history.

    Dennis P. Hupchick,  – “substituting Macedonian for Bulgarian ethnic tags in the story.”Just substituting the name from Bulgarian to Macedonian is more like a fraud , is it not?
    What about the real Macedonians and their human rights?

  36. I wonder if you will print the following comment:Macedonians are direct descendents of the ancient Macedonians,while the Greeks are unrelated to European origins and to the”older”Mediterranean substratum to which Macedonians belong to.There are written records which show that the Macedonians claimed direct descendent from the ancient Macedonians in their struggle to free Macedonia from the Ottomans.That is centuries before Greece took Aegean Macedonia with its army and launched its propaganda.King George himself in 1912 confirmed that when the Greek armies occupied Aegean Macedonia the overwhelming majority of the population were not Greeks,confirming the fact that the Greeks never lived in Macedonia since the most ancient times(Nikolaides,Spiros Melas)50,000 Greeks fought against Alexander in Persia.Macedonians slaughtered 18,000 and 2,000 Hellens sent to Macedonia in forced labor.Macedonian General Pithon massacred 23,000 more Hellens in a single battle when the Greeks revolted.(Curtious,Arrian,Diodorus).Ancient Hellens did not understand the Macedonian language.The proof is at the trial of Philota for treason in Asia when Alexander asked Philota “in what language will you address the people”.The letter of Isocrates to Philip,the epitaph for the fallen Hellens at Chaeronea.It is a shame to claim Macedonian history as being Greek.In 1925 at the League of Nations,the Greek high representative Vasilis Dendramis argued with the Serbs and Bulgarians on the identity,language and culture by saying”The Macedonian identity and language is different than that of Serbian and Bulgarian.Lets see what Athena Skoulariki a sociology professor at the University of Crete, for example says that Greece is tangled in a strategic dead end”In the course of the last 16 years we have lost one battle after another and still have not seriously considered what we are doing wrong.Why is the outside World not supporting the Greek thesis on this issue?Why after so many years of trying has Greece not succeeded in convincing the international public?asks professor Skoulariki.According to Skoulariki”the Greek arguments are not convincing because it is a fundamental right of all people to freely choose their name.We insist that our neighbor has no right to use the name Macedonia ignoring the fact that during the 19th and 20th century there was a wider region called Macedonia.”

  37. If Macedonia was in fact Greek,why did Greece agreed to the partition amongst Bulgaria,Serbia and Albania.This question is directed to Bulgaria as well.

  38. Only an idiot would say that Macedonia is Greek! And it’s not Bulgarian BTW its’ language is Macedonian all others are dialects (BLG, SRB, CRO…)

  39.  Sorry to point out your pretentious name Miss Skopje Alburia (Albanian-Bulgarian). But it is more correct to say that Turks have Greek genes because of the stealing of Greek children to make them Turkish Jannisaries and wives to the Pashas.

    As if you are 100% Skopian, i would not be surprised that even you will have a mix of Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Turkish and Gypsy blood running through your veins. And if you are Macedonian why do you not speak the Greek language. And be able to read the ancient Greek-Macedonian language.

    Because i am 100% certain that if you were standing in front of Alexander the Great or his father Philip you will not understand what they are saying.

    Take their names for example isn’t their names Greek in origin. Philip means lover or friend of horses. If it was in Slavic he would have been called “ПријателнаКоњи” (Priyatelnakoini). Congratulations on your national hero “Priyatelnakoini”At least this is now clear we Makedoni of Greece have Philip and you from Alburia, Moesia, Vadarska, Skopje have Priyatelnakoini.To everyone who loves history, just have a look at where Moesia is and what was its capital. Moesia was a Roman province with its capital Scupi (Skopje) both founded by the  Romans.

  40. Check this out->
    ΚΑΡΑΤΖΑΦΕΡΗΣ = Kara Djaferis = Black Jafar transl.
    on Turkish. Same is for Karamanlis Black something.Nice Greek names mate. And btw Soluns (Thessalonikis) Mayor said that Fyroms language is actually Macedonian language hmmm,
    I wonder why?

  41. Macedonia = Μακεδονία, was an ancient kingdom on the northern periphery of Classical Greece and later the dominant state of Hellenistic Greece. It was ruled during most of its existence initially by the legendary founding dynasty of the Greek Argeads, the intermittent Antipatrids and finally the Antigonids. Home to the Macedonians, the earliest kingdom was centered on the northeastern part of the Greek peninsula, bordered by Epirus to the west, Paeonia to the north, the region of Thrace to the east and Thessaly to the south….
    The term “Macedonia” refers to a geographical area of the southernmost part of Greece ,
    The geographical area of Macedonia there since ancient times, but the people who lived there arrived at different times. The Greeks are the ancient Macedonians is presented in many periods …prehistoric times, during the classical age of Greece (~ 450 BC, ), and at the time of death M. Alexander (323 BC ),Hellenistic times,and today’s Greel Macedonia…
    You, dear neighbors, you are mainly or Slavs (64.2%), Albania (25.2%). The rest of your ethnicity are few in proportion (3.9% Turks, Gypsies 2.7%, Serbs 1.8%, others..Those of you who are Slavs, obviously need to know that your ancestors descended from Northern Europe and lived in the area some time between the 6 th and 7 th century AD that 1000 years after the death of. Alexander ! What kind of mysterious affinity can ever have with the ancient Macedonians?
    The Macedonians as the Athenians, Spartans, Thebans, Cypriots etc. They were all Greeks!….
    Following the above is not justified, nor the seizure of Skopje, nor as a component of the Greek name ‘Macedonia’ for the state and national identification. There also allowed the deliberate ignorance or disregard of historical reality, from third countries, large or small, to serve their interests . We could discuss a concession if they brought us even a written or a memorial paper or other findings before 1944 that is not Greek!
    Romans,Turks,Slavs.Bulgarians,Albanians,all of you tried to captured our Macedonia,and in some cases you did…BUT NEVER WERE YOU ABLE TO EVER MAKE IT YOURS!
    The reality is that there was, isn’t and will never be a country with the name “Macedonia” that doesn’t have the GREEK language as its official one and the majority of the ethnic group the (real) macedonians = the greeks. This means that the issue cannot be a comparison of the rights of these two: a country which never had and doesn’t have the official name of “Macedonia” and whose majority of the population is speaking a slavic language = (still) FYROM and a region in GREECE which exists for over four millenia is known and called as MACEDONIA proper and that gave this world its greatest military genius that spread the HELLENIC (GREEK) culture all over his entire large empire (Alexander the Great = ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ). ….OR WAS THAT A SLAVIC ONE,CHIEFTAIN?…… BEHAVE NOW!